Curse

Spike Stritter · Jun 11, 2008, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Every now and then i try to Vanquish on my warrior with h/h using either racthohs para buddies( i go godmode) with 3 melee and a hero henchie or triple necro vanquish (godmode or ursan) with monk henchie and 3 others. but pretty much every time i do try to VQ this way my h/h are constantly dieing. Am i doing something wrong? even if i flag my heros back and i get all the aggro when i unflag my heros the enemies just run past me going for the squishes. ive heard of ppl get vanquishing with just h/h but i can never do it. any advice?

(sorry if this is in the wrong place)

N1ghtstalker · Jun 11, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

what are you trying to vanquish exactly?

Squishy ftw · Jun 11, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Are they runed decently?(survivor/minors)

What areas are it that you're failing at? Because there are some pretty hard areas out there, even when using sabs.

Are you taking down the biggest threats to your party first ?

itsvictor · Jun 11, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Your first with racthoh's hero has too much melee and not enough support. The melee AI is extremely lacking and you're pretty much wasting your time imo. You need to bring 2 hench monks(in my experience) when you do sab since one hench monk has a hard support itself even with extra healing. Be brave and gain adrenaline for SY is my other guess.

Covah · Jun 11, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

never take melee hench, they suck. You + 3 paragons for Racway is more then enough melee. Bring 2 monks +ranger and earth ele if you have too.

Akroma Angel NL · Jun 11, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

i use 3 necro hench myself as a warrior ursan
and 2 monks hench and 2 ele hench

it does the job for me

N1ghtstalker · Jun 11, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

adjust the builds depending on the area
sabway isn't failproof
if it's an area with heavy hexing sabway won't do squat since it has no hexremoval

Alex the Great · Jun 11, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

adjust the builds depending on the area
sabway isn't failproof
if it's an area with heavy hexing sabway won't do squat since it has no hexremoval

add cure hex to the SS and the MM. Henchies already have hex removal so your golden

DarkSpirit · Jun 12, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

Henchies already have hex removal so your golden

Yes and Mhenlo only has sucky [[Deny Hex] which he hardly uses.

Can't rely on henchies for hex removal.

Proff · Jun 12, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Try taking 2 monks and see how it goes, cause the problem might just be the way you aggro or who you target.

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 12, 2008, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

adjust the builds depending on the area
sabway isn't failproof
if it's an area with heavy hexing sabway won't do squat since it has no hexremoval

If it's an area with heavy hexing, they will be far too spamable to even waste your time with hex removal.

Clarissa F · Jun 12, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Pretty much what was said. Make sure your heroes are runed. Most people will just throw on the build and gogogo. Control the aggro. Use proper target selection. Don't think you can Leeroy through just because you have sab. They are only as smart as their leader uses them. Control the aggro. Take out the biggest issues first(healers,hexxers...), then worry about the melees running around.

Oh, and control the aggro.

Shaz · Jun 12, 2008, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

If it's an area with heavy hexing, they will be far too spamable to even waste your time with hex removal.

Many people always say this, but hex removals does help in heavy hex area with harmful hexes to your build. Most of the spamable one are usually not that harmful, usually just degen. It's stuff like SS, Migraine, PoF, Vision of Regret, etc. that aren't that spammable and need to be taken off asap. Even if those are spammable because there are more than one necros/mesmers in the group, you should be prepare to take those off with decent hex control anyway otherwise you'll have a hard time fighting with those on. The more hex removals you have the better chances you'll have at taking those more harmful one off, AI are bad at covering hexes anyway.

DarkSpirit · Jun 12, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

If it's an area with heavy hexing, they will be far too spamable to even waste your time with hex removal.

It is the heavily hexed areas that you may want to bring more than one hex removal especially if some of those hexes are devastating. It doesn't make sense NOT to bring hex removal even in places heavy with devastating hexes like SS, empathy, diversion, backfire, etc.

Many people misunderstood and think that because sabway doesn't have a hex removal skill, hex removals are ALWAYS bad to bring along with you. Sabway is just a generic build, not the commandments, and you should adapt it to the needs of specific areas.

For the other areas, it doesn't really matter if you have a hex removal or not. I normally just bring one [[Cure Hex] for the degen hexes since it also gives a nice heal side effect to take pressure off my healers, but good healers can also heal through them even without hex removals, in general.

If I remove Conjure Nightmare for example, Cure Hex saves me about 250+hp. I dont feel bad at all using it even against degen hexes just for the heals.

Darkside · Jun 12, 2008, 04:11 AM // 04:11

sab and racthoh heroes are both great but you have to be very careful in hardmode. Be sure to pull carefully and don't over aggro.

I generally bring along Cynn, Herta, and two Monk henchies with sabs triple nec team. I haven't had much trouble. I find the only flaw is lack of hex removal (usually not a huge deal) and lack of interrupts.

Another thing I would suggest is before you vanquish an area look it up on wiki and find out what you are dealing with. I almost always make small changes to my hero's builds to deal with whatever baddies are in that particular area.

Cathode_Reborn · Jun 12, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26

How much hex/condition removal you should bring depends on where the main damage is coming from.

Phys are affected by Weakness/Blind/Cripple. Casters are only affected by daze. There's also alot more hexes that are anti-phys based. If most of my damage is coming from casters, I'd take direct-healing skills over hex removal since it's more versatile.

Anyways....posting your "godmode" (oh the irony) build would help. The areas you're vanquishing also makes a huge difference.

Spike Stritter · Jun 12, 2008, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

Are they runed decently?(survivor/minors)

What areas are it that you're failing at? Because there are some pretty hard areas out there, even when using sabs.

Are you taking down the biggest threats to your party first ?

ALL of my heros are runed with survivor runes with major vigors and the runes they need for their att.
i jjust tried vanquishing mentani keys and when i aggroed a group of 5 skales we killed them all but at the cost of a h/h or 2 dieing pretty much everyonetime i aggroed ONE group.

Quote From Covah--"You + 3 paragons for Racway is more then enough melee. Bring 2 monks +ranger and earth ele if you have too."

Count much? me = war, racways heros = TWO paras, 1 derv.

OQkSEZKT8VLOxgnimaGWXFmY that is godmode.

Also the reason a brought all melee and 1 monk is because someone posted racthohs build on pvx and it said on there to bring as much melee as possible to get the full effect from the derv.

Fire The Nutter · Jun 12, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Sorry but I cant help but think "BAAAAAAA".

Do at least a little thinking for yourself. Consider some interruption capability, got good sources of blind, dazed, weakness ?
Any protection?
What Kurz rank are you and are you using SY often enough?
Id recommend 2 "monk"(if its not hench here then N/Rt with a Mo or E/Mo Ether Renewal perhaps?) backline even with the derv.
Reason being the derv works with the paras because they are close by to each other, so you have 1 monk covering, what 4 melee including you? thats a stretch i would have said, espec with (im guessing here) some AoE water spells going off from 5 targets?

Give the vanq some thought and youll be fine but just blindly copying PvX builds......... well stick to NM

DarkSpirit · Jun 12, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Stritter

Also the reason a brought all melee and 1 monk is because someone posted racthohs build on pvx and it said on there to bring as much melee as possible to get the full effect from the derv.

I wouldn't bring all melee heroes/henchies, especially if you are already having problems. Melee heroes/henchies have pathing issues and get "confused" by AoE attacks. I would bring Mhenlo, Herta, Cynn, and Zho if I am in EOTN areas.

NYC Elite · Jun 12, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

I wouldn't bring all melee heroes/henchies, especially if you are already having problems. Melee heroes/henchies have pathing issues and get "confused" by AoE attacks. I would bring Mhenlo, Herta, Cynn, and Zho if I am in EOTN areas.

You don't bring one ranger and all casters when you're running an orders derv.